Unknown Attendee  

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the KEFI Gold and Copper Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions] Due to the significant attendance online today, the company will not be able to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and as usual, we'll publish those on the Investor Meet Company platform.

Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. And if you give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company will be most grateful. And Harry, the floor is yours.

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Thank you, Mark. I was asked by shareholders to make a special effort to allow people to turn up and meet us in person in London. And I am told today that I made a big mistake of inviting everybody on a Friday afternoon. So obviously, that didn't quite achieve that purpose. But thank you for those who did attend here today. And the attendance online, I appreciate, I've told it's a very large number.

The timing of this particular webinar also, I suppose it's fair to say it was quite deliberate because it's a bit challenging at times to have these sorts of sessions because it's not regulated and I'm not really meant to step outside the bounds of what's public information. And all I'm trying to do is, I suppose, help people understand public information. And therefore, I was quite deliberate in that sense that we should time it to be between the annual report, which is meant to be fairly fulsome update and the Annual General Meeting so that we're in a time window, if you like, where the market should be fairly well informed already and fully informed and to make it easier, if you like, to be expansive.

The other thing is that we did put out a presentation this morning, which I assume people have seen on the website. And of course, that gets checked by the regulatory system. So we've tried to be as up to date as possible just going into this webinar to make sure we're doing nothing improper.

On that note, I'll kick off very briefly with a skip through this presentation. I don't think you're here to steer at a presentation you've seen on our website, but I'll just skip through it and maybe I'll try to pick up some of the bits that I think are perhaps the most sensitive or critical nuances. Now obviously, shareholder -- at last count when we could work it out, there were 5,000 shareholders. And it's very difficult for shareholders to try to read into the nuances of what's going on behind the scenes, and I'll try to help.

The first thing to say is that about a year ago -- forgetting all the history up to a year ago, about a year ago, it started to pivot into an execution. And that's because the country had settled down. When I first arrived in Ethiopia 10 years ago, it was all implementation. We had to correct the technical plan, and it was all implementation. We had a bank lined up and we were going like textbook case, and then the country started changing very rapidly around us. And sort of with hindsight, we didn't foresee all the things that happened. But with hindsight, we lost a good 5 years realistically. And that turned -- about a year ago, it turned into an implementation plan.

And our achievement, whether we like it or not, it's just a fact was that the only thing we really achieved in those 5 last years is defend the company, not lose the license, not lose people on the ground and actually, we forged relationships with banks and government and contractors to the point where they were happy to stay with us because they saw how we behaved ourselves and they were comfortable that we would do nothing stupid. That's all we achieved. We didn't achieve value adding. We didn't achieve all the things we tried to achieve. With hindsight, we didn't. And a year ago, it turned. This is happening, sort of feeling.

And we -- it was all on the back of security being deployed. It was ready to be deployed. It couldn't be deployed. It was deployed heavily not because we are attacked, not because anybody who was against us other than underhanded people, you can meet in any country but because there are some risks out there that you've got to treat it as a red zone with, and we do.

Now what are the sensitive points on this? It's fair to say it's a criticism applied to me that some of the things I say are aspirational rather than factual. Well, when the things are changing around you all the time and you're actually shepherd shepherding 12 parties against the backdrop of political turmoil, yes, it's aspirational, and I don't know that anyone can get away from that fact. When you get into signed contracts, it's contractual, and that's what we're looking forward to now.

And the thing that really triggered this now into contractual is the parliamentary ratification in May. The world promised it, I don't know, December or January imminently, and we had to keep pushing and shoving and pushing and shoving and unfortunately, we don't control the parliament of the country, and it only came through in the middle of May. But that was the trigger.

On the back of that, we were able to trigger some of the certifications that you couldn't trigger before then. If you trigger them before then, you could run out of puff because they only last so long. So that was the key that triggered the sequencing of contract closing. That means that we are now today all planning closing. That's what we're doing. And the documents are assembled. They have to be polished.

Most costing updates are done, but the plant one because it's fixed price lump sum is going to take into July now because we only triggered it after the ratification. But it's all systems go in the sense of setting up to sign the contracts. Everyone is getting greedy and running their commissions and work and the contractors need to mobilize their staff, they need to assign labor. I mean it's now getting to the stage of everyone having to plan their human and capital resources to be assigned to this assignment now.

Do I work this? I know I took way too long on that first one, but I thought that was perhaps worthwhile because the frustration that I feel all the time from shareholders saying, why the hell can't you sign it and get on with it? Why can't -- if you sign on one day, why can't you draw down the next day and all this sort of stuff. There's $1 billion of contracting being done here and if shareholders put up the money and did all the work, they could call the shots.

But the reality is we're not in that business. We're in the business of commandeering the capital and commandeering the contractors to make those commitments for us. So unfortunately, we don't just boss everybody around every day, we corral them. Now as soon as they sign the contracts, it's different because they're on the hook contractually with liabilities if they don't perform.

Field activities this quarter. If you just scan your eye over that, I won't dwell on anything but it's obviously being prepared for launch. There's construction of security camps and construction camps and so on.

Next one, please. This isn't a new slide, but the points of sensitivity are nothing to do with the first $320 million, but all to do with are we going to issue shares for $5 million or $10 million or something like that. That's all that I hear about from shareholders, nothing to do with how the hell do you raise $315 million. It's all to do with do we really have to put up $5 million.

Well, I don't want to sound in any way arrogant, but the reality is what percentage of $320 million is $5 million? What is that? About 1.5%? So shareholders need to understand this is a mining contract in Ethiopia and a 1.5% variance on budget is not outside the realms of possibility. I'm not saying it will be. I'm not saying -- I'm not promising or guaranteeing anything. I'm just trying to be realistic here.

You are investing as shareholders in a preproduction company in a frontier market in the first bankable deal in the country. And really, are you intolerant of a 1.5% variance on budget? I mean I'm saying that seriously with all respect, but I don't hear from 5,000 shareholders. I usually only hear from a handful. But I do make the point, I'm just trying to be common sense reasonable in this industry in the context of what we're doing. I think we've done -- well, I don't know anybody who's done this before. I don't know anyone who in London has raised so much capital without reliance on shareholders. I don't know, although I'm happy to be corrected.

Next one, please. The closing process, what should I highlight here? What worries me about the closing process? I've made the point of in the last few days talking to the owner of the mining contractor and boss of the mining contractor, the Group Managing Director of the construction contractor, the lead banker, the minister in Ethiopia, just to make sure that I'm not missing anything. I've done that very deliberately. And everyone is pushing so hard, the anxiety, the tension.

But what I would say is that it's a normal thing. Anxiety and tension when you're in the home stretch is perfectly normal. And the important thing is to focus it on positive delivery closing, not on taking shots at each other if we're all on the same side. It's happening. And we all just have to man up to it and deal with it and close. And that's what we're doing.

And what's worrying me? Apart from just the general era of turning energy into positive energy and closing, I think we've got a first-class structure, which is why the banks stuck with us. The way we've structured the contracts and surrounded this with first-class people, you don't -- you talk to me, but you don't see the first-class team we've got on the ground, very experienced.

It's the social side and the politics because everything else is perfectly controllable. And the social side is now not an uncontrollable thing. What I can say is that their excitement, imagine being people who lived in the same land on the same land for millennia, not 20 years, but millennia, and crossing the bridge mentally to be removed and shifted. Imagine being in that position. Well, they just want to get on with it now. They're sick of hearing about it. And so we need to manage that extremely carefully. So that I'm not perturbed by anything that's said or done, but that's -- I'm really concerned about doing that properly, and we will.

And the politics of the country is so palpably driven to get this job on the road that we're under intense pressure, beaten up relentlessly by the politicians to get this started. But we will insist on all the Is dotted and all the Ts crossed and all the documentation before we press the button. And I could tell you stories about people who just get cajoled into proceeding without getting everything properly tided, and we will do it properly. But they're good pressures. They're not bad pressures. They just have to be dealt with properly.

The structure in Ethiopia is there's a new holding company being incorporated down in the country. I'm not sure is it already done, John? I don't -- yes. It's so that we can list down there for local investors to participate. One of our hallmarks, which I hope stands this company out over time and gives us more and more protection and more and more opportunity, is to be able to have local stakeholders, local owners involved in the structure. Having the government involved, I think, saved our bacon on the way through the last few years. And having the private sector involved through institutional investors, I think, will only reinforce that going forward.

And over on the left-hand, the Saudi side, we're doing the same thing to give us more flexibility in how we structure, either our remaining in Saudi or departure from Saudi, but it gives us more structure, more opportunity. I'll talk about that a bit more later.

Next slide, please. Yes, I could easily wax lyrical about the development opportunity in Ethiopia and the other things that we can do. And I will understand that as soon as we sign for construction, everyone's questions will immediately turn to what next. I well understand that. And there is a pipeline of things to address, but no one really wants to focus on them until we got this thing signed up, which is fair enough, and that's the way it should be.

But I think it's obvious that the first thing is the underground development. If this was a large mining group, we would be planning to develop the underground access immediately and to coproduce from underground as well as open pit immediately. It's not today's priority but that's obviously the first cab off the rank, and we'll address that as soon as it's reasonable to do so from a cost of capital viewpoint. And I've put in there a target of how we'll do it, but we'll do it when it makes sense.

And there are other things in the pipeline that we need to address. And this thing will start I think year 1 in the open pit will be about 160,000 ounces. You can -- and we start the mining at 2.5 million tonnes a year, the processing at only 2 million tonnes a year, so we can rev up the plant when we want to. But that's all to come, and we want to get this thing up to 200,000 ounces plus as soon as we can.

Next one, please. The Saudi pipeline, I was -- one of the questions said, which were pre-submitted questions, why didn't you sell it in December? Well, we only announced a 6-month review in November. And the question was why didn't you sell it in December? I don't think you could sell your house in 1 month, let alone a venture in Saudi Arabia. It put the spotlight on this, put pressure on this and the pressure yielded a lot of positive developments already, which we put our RNSs out on. And we do have some choices emerging, not on the table, emerging, and we need to work them out.

The partner, if I may quote because he says it to everybody he meets, is differential or respectful enough to say everything we've achieved will be achieved because of KEFI, and I'm really sad to hear them say they would be interested to sell out. And we're so close to being completely self-funding I don't understand it. That's the partner's words. And what he means by that, I think, is the Jibal Qutman analysis sort of being a gold -- fairly straightforward gold development where KEFI's development capital share might be as low as $5 million or something like that. And that triggers a whole self-funding exercise in the country and he's a bit bemused by the fact that KEFI doesn't have the wherewithal to just keep up with that. It's a bit weird to him. But we'll do what we have to do.

Next slide, please. This slide is a standard slide. It states the critical sort of carrot, if I can put it that way. If we have people who want to be part of this journey, people who stay in to be in this journey, the only reason they should be in such a high-risk journey is if the multiples of upside warrant it. And I think they do, notwithstanding the terrible dilution we've suffered just to survive. I think the multiples do warrant it and the multiples on what we have today, the pipelines are huge. And it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think of all sorts of ideas and possibilities, but they're good multiples.

Next slide, please. The Board -- well, the 2 executive directors are in the room, and I do admit that photo of mine is a bit flattering. It's a bit old and better updated. The other guys are all seasoned people. To be honest, you have to be a bit thick skin and seasoned to be in this game. And I'm not good enough to do it by remote controllers. If you think I sip martinis by the pool in Cyprus as my living, simply don't understand. I don't know why my wife and family have tolerated it, but I've barely seen them for years, but I'm not complaining.

And these nonexecutive directors, I've known them for up to about 5 years, I think, each of them. They're all very decent people. One has been an operator in the mining game all his life before he retired, Rich, Alistair has been an ESG specialist for the largest European development bank. And Addis is a director on a number of companies in Addis, basically protecting multinationals who operate in Addis, plus he has his own businesses. Next slide, please.

Unknown Attendee  

That's the end of the slide deck. Thank you very much...

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

I'm sorry, I took much longer than I should have.

Unknown Attendee  

No, that's fine. Well, look, we've -- as I said at the outset, you've got good attendance on today's call. You had a lot of pre-submitted questions. So let's dive straight into it. And if I can push you on some of the timings on the responses, that would be great. So you asked me to ask all the questions in the way they were formatted and some of them were quite direct. So let's get going. How generally independent are the NEDs on the Board, especially those dealing with remuneration?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

All the NEDs deal with remuneration, and they're completely independent. I mean they're all big boys and there's no silly business.

Unknown Attendee  

Okay. With the CEO, that's you, being 69 years old, apologies if I'm putting your age in the public domain but here we are. With several additional roles outside KEFI, what measurable transition milestones exist for operational handover given COO's lack of Board representation?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Well, thank you for reminding me how old I am. I have one nonexecutive directorship outside KEFI, so that's not an issue. COOs are never on the Board. You only have one executive responsible for operations on the Board. And I think I've always been pretty clear that when we see this thing coming into production, a succession will have been implemented. And it's fair to say that, that's a pretty important stability and commitment for all the stakeholders.

Just imagine if you're a bank or a contractor or a local investor, is putting up pretty well all the money, nearly all of the money. And you see this guy who's through thick and thin with a team through thick and thin got through what we've been through. And then as soon as they sign contracts, is off to the Bahamas, right? Imagine your response to that. And I don't expect anybody to invite that or to appreciate that, nor would I ever think that.

But having said that, as we move towards production, there are plans. This company will be built fairly quickly. Today, it's about less than 100 people on the ground in Ethiopia and it will be about 10x that in 12 months' time. So this is -- it's going to go like wildfire and the management ranks will grow accordingly. And I'll take off some of the hats that I wear and shrink them to just 1 or 2. Well, that's just normal management.

Unknown Attendee  

Thank you. Well, you asked me to roll the punches. Here's the next one. Please can you try to justify your 2024 remuneration because shareholders consider it excessive and sure you feel humbled by the outrage it created amongst even some of your strongest supporters?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Yes, I feel humbled. I felt humbled when it was raised to me last year as a gesture of recognition for what we've been through, what I've done. And I feel humbled that, that was the reaction. But I think, to be honest, the main thing is to apologize to shareholders for the very thirst, almost shorthanded explanation in what you call it the annual report because the annual report made it sound like all this money was handed over to me, and it hasn't happened. And so it let loose strident publicists who like to be strident and now they're in the public domain before they even asked me to tell them what had happened or explanation. But I don't blame them. I think the annual report was clearly statutorily compliant, but it didn't actually help people really understand.

The actual essence of it is that about a year ago, we were pivoting, right? We were pivoting from being in the dark ages to going into the good times. And the Board sincerely offered some recognition of that, not for the events of last year, but for the previous 12 years. And if you add up what happened over 12 years, I've been so far received GBP 150,000 a year and about GBP 187,000 of shares. If anyone thinks that's excessive pay for what we do, you just don't know. And anyone who tells me that what average earnings are in the U.K. and why do I get paid more just doesn't know. And if anyone thinks I'll do it -- if anyone thinks I would have done it for that pay knowing what was coming, they just don't know. But the point is history is history, and I have no regrets. I'm looking forward to what's coming up.

What else would I say, whether you think that's overpay or underpay. The -- how do you call it, the charges of the senior people are all charged down to the operation. So 75% of Harry is recharged because that's where the time is spent. You wouldn't have a Harry or a John or an Eddy on some little show that's doing some exploration somewhere and scratching around. But if you're lining up $1 billion worth of OpEx and CapEx contracting, managing a country through -- managing a company through a country in civil war and defending it and do all that stuff, who would do it for nothing?

You're just sort of seeking just decency. I'm not suggesting that I don't want money. If I felt that this wasn't going to work, I'd be out of here tomorrow. It has to work. If I don't see that, I can't do it. But I can see it, I can taste it. It's going to happen. And that's what turns me on. That's what really turns me on.

Unknown Attendee  

Thank you, Harry. Well, they get softer from here, you'll be pleased to hear. Do you plan to list the parent company in Ethiopia or the subsidiary? And if so, when? If it's not the parent company, are there other listings for the parent company that you might consider to hopefully bridge the valuation that AIM doesn't seem to be doing?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

First of all, on the Ethiopian thing, only the Ethiopian holding company, not the parent, doesn't do anything for the company because Ethiopians can only invest in [ B ]. It doesn't really do anything for the stock market to have people who can only invest in Ethiopian. But for locals, it's important, and we promised it. And it will happen, I don't know, next year or something like let's get this deal closed and there's only one listed company on the Ethiopian stock exchange, and we can do it for them next year or whatever.

I've been the boss of a company listed in Australia, Australia and England, Australia and Canada. And it's ephemeral. It comes and goes. 1 month, 1 6-month period. Once, Australia is a place to be. Now that's Canada is a place to be, London is a place to be, and it moves around. If you ask me today, I'd say, if you wanted to-do list, I'd put it on to the ASX. The guy sitting down here, Simon Francis, who writes reports on the company thinks, well, maybe there's some merit in just being one of the very few counters in London when the thing takes off, aren't you better off just being in London. I think this will spring when the market settles down and when greed overtakes fear, whenever that is, it's up to the market.

And I don't think it matters where the listing is. I think it will just take off when the market is ready, whenever that is. So I think that's the more important question. When does the market want to get behind it rather than which listing it is. The ASX people would list us tomorrow if we wanted to. TSX people like to completely rebadge the whole thing and back in Canadian assets and do all sorts of things, which I just think we should stick to our focus and deliver is the main thing.

Unknown Attendee  

Thank you. Question here around the legal case. In January, KEFI announced that legal claims were dismissed by the English High Court and that all counterclaims were awarded in KEFI's favor. This was a notable milestone, yet it wasn't referenced in the June RNS. Has this legal resolution improved confidence among your financiers or partners?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

I think some of them didn't even notice it because I think they trust us. But I have to say, probably embarrassing now. One of our senior lawyers, [ Raimi ], it's great to hear, see the judgment. I read the judgment and said, what a credible witness you were. I said you've been a lawyer for all these years, and you have to read a judgment to understand that we're a credible witness. I thought this is a bit ridiculous. But no one mentioned it to me, to be honest.

Nobody took that claim how I put it. Nobody feared that claim, but you can't be taken to the High Court of England and not treat it so seriously, which we did. It was terrible distraction and I've never been in such a situation before in my life, and I didn't enjoy it, but we had to deal with it, and we did. But I think what was more influential on our big stakeholders like banks is really how we conducted ourselves through that very challenging few years in Ethiopia.

I think it's one thing to talk about you can do this and you can do that. It's another thing to put a company under that sort of stress, kidnapping, civil war, lootings, extortion attempts, corruption attempts, all those things, and they witnessed a test, if you like, a string of tests. And I like to think that they thought, well, if they can behave themselves this way in bad times, and they're pretty reliable people in good times. That's what I'd like to think, Mark.

Unknown Attendee  

Thank you. Just a couple of questions, and we've had a couple of similar questions in the live meeting about missing data perhaps in some of the materials that you issued. KEFI stated the private investors and institutions were seeing the same data. That's disappointing that the May '25 presentation deck admitted some core financial metrics. So just really just to try and get your views as to whether or not that could be improved.

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Yes. I saw that question and looked up what that May presentation was, and it was a presentation on Ethiopian mining investments. So it wasn't really talking about everything. It was -- how would I put it, it was sort of contaminated or whatever by the agenda of promoting Ethiopia and not promoting KEFI necessarily. So I'm sorry if that confused. But probably the more important point, the question is asking is when do you start going hell for leather on laying out all the ratios and statistics on investor returns on this. That's really the gist of the question.

And I think that up until now, I felt that shareholders needed to see this thing coming together before we started bombarding them with the [indiscernible] of IRRs and everything every time. But I think it's a fair suggestion that we should do that now because we are about to close this off and get going. And therefore, I think people will actually pay attention now, and I think it's warranted to do so. So I agree.

Unknown Attendee  

Okay. Question here, can the signing of definitive agreements with the 2 lead banks proceed without definitive commitments from the Ethio bonds and BCM?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

I mean the banks need to see before they sign off that they're committed, they need to see that the whole package is financed. So they're not going to -- there's not going to be any binding commitments until everybody knows that the whole package is financed. So to -- I mean the short answer is no. There's always a little bit of grayness around the edges like Fred's away for a week or sign -- subject to him signing later or that sort of stuff always happens.

Unknown Attendee  

Just turning to, I guess, project financing. The project financing is described as very close to completion. Could you outline the final steps that remain before this will close and whether a target drawdown window has been set for syndicate partners?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

I think I did that in that presentation on the slide show today. And so I won't -- I know there's a lot of questions, so I won't go over it again. I'll just mention that -- we're all pushing for finishing the plant certification in July. The independents, but you call it expert has to then sign off for the banks. And then everyone signs off and triggers within weeks of that in August, and then we draw down as soon as we can. And I don't want anyone to think that you sign and money flows the next day. Hundreds of millions of dollars just don't flow that way. But it's -- the main thing is getting it signed off and then money will flow with the normal drawdown procedures that take place over a few weeks.

Unknown Attendee  

Just looking forward, I guess, here, the Edison Research note referenced potential dividends from full year '28. I know we're a long way off from that. But can you clarify whether you've got any plans to introduce a formal dividend policy post production and when such guidance might be issued?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

I think all I can talk about is the philosophy of the leader of the company and of the people that run the company. It's premature to set dividend policy, obviously. But there's nothing I would enjoy more than achieving the sort of cash flows that we've published to run debt down by 50% like that and pay out a big lump of dividends as a thank you to everybody. That would be a fantastic outcome. And nothing I'd enjoy more than that. It's too early to make a formal policy. You have to build it first.

Unknown Attendee  

Okay. There's a couple of questions around construction. How is the Ethiopian rainy season factored into your scheduling? What is the expected impact on works if the weather conditions are unfavorable? And have you kind of anticipated the longest delay built into your plans?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Yes. I'm sorry, I've even mentioned the word rainy season or wet season, to be honest, because it seems to have completely preoccupied some people. It's sort of like a nonevent, relatively speaking, for scheduling. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it really is factored in, it's scheduled and it can be coped with no matter what's going on.

Unknown Attendee  

And just continuing on that theme, has the EPC contractor mobilization begun? If not, when is it expected? And could you also outline the intended construction consequence and whether a revised Gantt chart will be released in 2025?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Yes. The Gantt chart summary, I mean, there's a 1,000-line Gantt chart, which is not for public consumption. But the summary level thing was in today's presentation. And I think I said earlier that I made the point of speaking with the bosses around the table over the last few days. And the head of the mining and the head of the plant construction, it's all about assigning their labor, their people. And they want to know the question from the like podium side was, do I assign now? Are you ready? When do they move? All that sort of stuff because he has to assign the team.

The engineering and scheduling and so on, we've got our boss in Canada working with them, but the actual people, the boots on the ground have to be assigned. And we discussed the timetable exactly as I've laid it out to shareholders, and that's what he's doing. So the answer to the question is no, they haven't mobilized. They don't mobilize until you've signed the contract, but they have to get ready for mobilization, and that's what we've been doing. I think that answered the question.

Unknown Attendee  

Can you explain more about what certifications are that you're waiting for? And is this something that is wholly in KEFI's hands? Or does it rely on perhaps third parties, banks and so on?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Well, independent certifications by definition, is not reliant on KEFI. It's independent certifications. And the mining is insofar as preparing for the independents to sign off, the mining is done. The community estimations are done. The plant is half done. It couldn't be triggered formally until we had got the parliamentary ratification because it sort of runs out of applicability. You have to sort of start again if it's not used quickly.

And the independent technical expert who signs off has already been to site to be ready so that they've witnessed on the ground, everything to be ready to get the numbers and so on to update models and so on quickly. So everyone is sort of preparing for that certification exercise to be quick. Nobody is trying to be slow. But it's independent. It's not KEFI. It's being prepared for so that it fits with that schedule that we had on the slide.

Unknown Attendee  

Question around funding here, I guess. What is the holdup with the second bank agreeing to the increased borrowing? Do you have any idea when this might be approved? Is it reasonable to assume that this would definitely be approved given time scales for commencement of major works will be dependent on funding approval?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Yes. I think I'm confused. I think I often wonder whether we're too transparent because it begs 1,000 questions that wouldn't even be asked if we were not so transparent. But the first bank formally approved it all the way through to Board approval early '24. The second bank approved it all the way through to Board approval in March '25. On the agreement with the first bank that they would increase the facility together. And then the second bank waited for this parliamentary ratification before bothering their Board again. They didn't want to embarrass themselves again by not being ready to go on the second approval of the same deal.

So I was speaking to the lead banker this morning, again, bashing the hell out of each other and all sorts of things. But there's no problem. It's just trying multi -- I mean these are $15 billion banks who've got lots of things to do. And having to approve it for the second time, get your ducks in a row lads and we'll approve it and don't worry about it, Harry, let's get on with it. It's -- I wouldn't worry about it really. I wouldn't worry about it, but it's being done, and it's built into that schedule.

Unknown Attendee  

Thanks, Harry. I think you've touched on it, but it's in the list of questions here. So I'm seeking clarification of what remains outstanding, who's responsible, sequencing, downside risks, a GMCO update, including annual burn from its continued holdings. Lots there for you, Harry, and you have touched on some, but...

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

I didn't catch all of it. It's all over the place. I think I've actually touched on all those things, to be honest. So let's move to the next question.

Unknown Attendee  

Perfect. You had a meeting of stakeholders in June to look at each other in the eyes and say, let's go. If it's not, then when will it be? And is there a fixed timetable from then to measure the company's performance against?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Yes. The answer is yes, and I think I've done that as well.

Unknown Attendee  

Okay. Perfect. Well, look, I've taken a lot of time for those pre-submitted questions. Perhaps I could just come to the room and ask if there's anyone here that would like to pose a question to Harry. If so, I'll provide you with a microphone. Yes. Perfect. If you just give Harry an interest in KEFI.

Unknown Shareholder  

My name is Peter. I hold about 1% in KEFI overall of the issued share capital. I'd like to know about the Ethio prefs. How firm are those commitments? Are they just soft commitments you've got at the moment? Or have you got significant players that are willing to put in a lot and have made some firm commitments to you?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Yes. The Ethio prefs are not firm commitments yet. They are soft commitments from about, I don't know, 15 institutions and high net worth offices. They're timid people in the sense that this is a bit weird, a bit new. The capital markets sort of in the process of being opened for new securities and the stock exchange listing. So this is a first for them. It is certainly right down their really on what they need to do to diversify out of the [ burr ]. And it's been very well received. I think out of maybe 30 conversations we've had, I don't know, maybe 3 or 4 have said no.

So I can't guarantee it, but I think we have the first investment banker team in the country working on it with us. We're doing it in collaboration with the Capital Markets Authority, people who asked us to do it. The Central Bank said, if you get stuck on anything because regulations somehow thwart you or obstruct you, let us know. So it's sort of an official effort. It's not a sort of scurrying around half fast idea. But I can't guarantee it. It is the weakest link, but I don't think it's weak. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't at least $15 million, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's $30 million. That's my judgment. But that's about all I could sort of say at the moment, I think.

Unknown Attendee  

Any other questions from the room?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

How are we for time, sorry?

Unknown Attendee  

You're up 50 minutes, 55.

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

50. Okay.

Unknown Attendee  

So I mean I'll happily go on. I just don't want to repeat things that you may have touched upon...

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

You judge which questions to ask, you scroll down. I mean normally, we try to wrap it up in an hour, but I'm happy to go over a little bit...

Unknown Attendee  

I mean there are questions around your thoughts about funding of the business, future funding of the business, the need for capital moving forward, maybe any comments that you can say that within the parameters of what you can and can't say.

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Well, it's a dilemma, isn't it? It's a bit of a dilemma in the sense that we've survived sort of a dark 10 or 15 years in the junior mining space in terms of capital allocation. If you look at any index, it just sort of goes like that. And I often wonder where I've got a genetic defect to be in this space. And probably all of you, investors in this space often wonder yourselves about yourselves. There's something in this space that turns us on. And surviving that 10 or 15 years and throw on top of it all the things in these countries that hit us, you sort of feel like you deserve a hell of a pat on the back and a huge reward. That's how we all feel all of us.

I think we're at the point, fortunately, that we've got a project ready to rock. So let's just do it. The rest will look after itself. That's what I really think. No matter what I say or what everybody wishes, let's just get on with it and the rest will look after itself. As soon as people see some key announcements, all the publicist who like to pontificate on whether my salary is high or low or whatever.

And all that stuff just disappears and you just focus on the real game. And the real game here is to close this bloody thing and get on with it. And I think the cost of capital will relieve itself and we'll do what deserves doing. The answer will be in the results. And if the market really still doesn't like it, well, I give up. We'll just sell the whole thing. Make 50% of our money instead of 10x our money. That's all you can do. I mean you do what you're going to do.

Unknown Attendee  

[ Ashley Ward ]. You've got some new institutional investors on board. Do you see them adding to the business itself other than just being purely shareholders?

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

Well, I don't think they expect to be involved in the business. They don't want to be involved in the business at all and their compliance systems certainly keep them 1,000 miles from being contaminated by business decisions. However, they're the first people to put their hands up if they're not happy about something, no doubt about that. Something substantive. I have no doubt that the leaders of those institutions would get on the phone and say, what the hell are you doing on this? What was that about or whatever? Not that that's happened, but I've been around long enough not to take their presence lightly.

The good thing to me, the excellent thing to me is that they really don't really care the share price gyrations from day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month. Really, that's not the issue. They're open eyed investing in what they think is inflection point investing. That's what they're trying to do here, contrarian mentality, if you like, and they're investing for the long term. And they've invested such small sums of money. They're there to follow their investment as things emerge.

And that's to me the important thing. And it's -- the small shareholders have been fantastic, patient and beaten up like the management team have, but have been fantastic to carry this thing through. Most AIM junior miners have disappeared in the time we've been doing this. And our shareholders are still there. I'm not saying they're happy, but they're still there and engaging, but these institutions have a bigger prize in the longer term in their minds, and that's a good thing.

Unknown Attendee  

Thank you. Are there any more questions in the room at all? No. Perfect. Harry, I won't keep repeating some of these questions. There are some different ones, but I'd like you to take a look at those and we can publish those post the meeting. Look, before I redirect investors to give you their feedback, thank you, firstly, for your time this afternoon for taking the questions as you ask them to roll. But before I redirect investors to give you feedback, perhaps I could just ask you for a couple of closing comments. I'll end the webinar and then you can engage.

Aristidis Anagnostaras-Adams   Founder, Executive Chairman & MD

If we've missed something substantive that you think should have been answered, we're happy to put it on the Q&A on the website if we're allowed to regulatory-wise. And I am criticized often internally as well as externally for being transparent. I like to think that it diffuses and explains and helps the situation. And whether you like it or not, that's the way we are. And the webinar, the Q&A stuff is in a sincere attempt of transparency, whether you like all the answers or not, it's just trying to be straight up.

Unknown Attendee  

That's great. Thank you, Harry, and thank you to those in the room and those online. For those online, we'll now redirect you to provide the company with your feedback. I'm sure the company is grateful for your participation. Thank you for joining us this afternoon.